Hennadiy Kernes: I’m Not Leaving Kharkiv and I Will Run in the Elections

Hennadiy Kernes: I’m not leaving Kharkiv and I will run in the elections

The controversial mayor of Kharkiv, Hennadiy Kernes, suggested a few weeks ago that Ukrainska Pravda record an interview. The reason—possibly a prior publication of a conversation with the mayor of Lviv, Andriy Sadovyi.

After weighing the pros and cons, we decided to speak with Kernes, first offering readers the chance to submit questions on Ukrainska Pravda’s Facebook page. Some of those questions were put to the Kharkiv mayor.

During our conversation Kernes sits at a table in a wheelchair and signs papers one after another. Ukrainska Pravda’s homepage is open on a large iMac screen—the mayor of Kharkiv says he refreshes it often. The desk is piled with documents, including sociological studies that Kernes orders personally for himself.

Half an hour after the interview begins, the mayor has to pause—since the attempt on his life in April last year he still suffers severe leg pain. An aide brings two pills, the mayor takes them, and we continue the interview.

Kernes feels confident in the mayor’s chair of the country’s first capital. Last August a draft resolution was registered in the Rada to prematurely terminate the powers of the Kharkiv mayor and city council, but the attempt to forcibly remove Kernes failed. Only 166 people voted "for."

He is not bothered by the fact that in February last year a criminal case was opened against him. He is suspected of organizing kidnappings during the Euromaidan period in Kharkiv. In the interview Kernes calls the case a fabrication and says the witness in it is MP from the People’s Front, Anton Herashchenko.

What gives the Kharkiv mayor confidence? Possibly good relations with the head of the Presidential Administration, Kharkiv native Borys Lozhkin. Kernes once visited Lozhkin at the PA at night last year.

With the appointment of new Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, clouds gathered again over the mayor of Kharkiv. Majoritarian MP Oleksandr Kirsh wrote that the new prosecutor general promised him that the criminal case against Kernes would be forwarded to court.

In the interview the mayor of Kharkiv also explained why he still does not consider Russia an aggressor country, why the city council did not allocate money for Kharkiv’s defense but preferred a little house for a giraffe, and what he personally is doing to keep calm in the city.

– Hennadiy Adolfovych, how are you feeling now?

– After the operation in Israel I had another one in Switzerland. I’m now undergoing rehabilitation and am running the city from the Kharkiv mayor’s office, not from a hospital room.

– Has it become harder for you to govern the city given your illness?

– Before I could freely attend any events related to the city’s development and meet residents in courtyards, residential neighborhoods, for example.

Now that’s more difficult, but I won’t give up holding meetings and citizen receptions. I’m sure those who come into contact with me understand my condition and respect my civic stance.

– Before coming to interview you, we asked Ukrainska Pravda’s Facebook users what question they would ask you. One of the most frequent questions was—why did we come to interview you? So you could answer our readers?

– I think for readers who would like to know the position of regional authorities given the events happening in the country. That’s one reason.

– People are also curious about what the situation in the city is like and how Kharkiv residents feel about what’s happening in Ukraine?

– The situation in the city is stable, calm, although there is cause for concern.

I think the patience Kharkiv residents and inhabitants of other regions are showing deserves a quick change in the situation and a better life for them. As for a pro-Ukrainian position—the overwhelming majority of Kharkiv residents understand that what happened in Donetsk or Luhansk cannot be allowed. I constantly order sociology to understand Kharkiv residents’ moods and thoughts (reaches for a folder with data).

– How often do you do this, and what are the latest trends?

– Once every three to four months. Let’s look (takes folder): "Assessment of Ukraine’s foreign policy choice." "If a referendum were held soon on joining the EU, the Customs Union, or NATO, how would you vote?" 24% of Kharkiv residents would vote for the European Union, 27% for the Customs Union, and 16% for NATO.

We’ve been asking this question since last year, when the situation in the city was very unstable and everyone wanted a referendum. I think now no one wants that. Today the overwhelming majority of Kharkiv residents want peace, a solid tomorrow, and for Kharkiv not to be drawn into this so-called war.

– What are you doing to change public opinion in Kharkiv? After all, 3% more residents favor the Customs Union than the EU.

– I’ll explain once again: if we’re talking about the Customs Union and see it as a step toward Russia, then 27% want it and 41% do not.

– But what are you as city authorities doing to get Kharkiv residents to change their minds?

– To influence Kharkiv residents’ opinions we must know and understand the processes. We must know when a referendum would be prepared if we are to hold one. For now these are just words.

So my main task now is to deal with the city’s life support. That’s policy, and it has different directions. Some directions hamper processes, others require them.

When the process starts, I will participate. Because first I am a Kharkiv resident, and then the city head. And of course, first and foremost, a citizen of Ukraine.

– What process are you talking about—preparation for a referendum?

– I mean the process of a referendum on issues related to the European Union, the Customs Union, or NATO—then we’ll talk. Today we know the country has made a European choice. That means we say "For the European Union."

– Do you support a unitary Ukraine?

– Certainly.

– But look, it’s the first time in a long time I’ve come to the city…

– Did you like Kharkiv?

– I always like Kharkiv a lot. But unlike your neighboring Dnipropetrovsk, your city has no messages that would unite residents around the idea that the city is pro-Ukrainian. It was the same a year ago as it is now.

– Let me answer that. OK? As for the city’s upkeep—that’s happening. Because that’s the task of local self-government and city authorities.

As for the pro-Ukrainian position—I am confident it is visible.

So when "hour X" comes you will see the result we expect from Kharkiv residents. I think our main task now is to allay fears about potential military action in Kharkiv region. Not only in Kharkiv city but also in the region.

– There have recently been several explosions in the city. How do you calm Kharkiv residents?

– First, I think it’s very important to carry out explanatory work. Regional media should correctly convey information from law enforcement about anti-terrorist work to Kharkiv residents.

– Interior Minister Arsen Avakov was in Kharkiv. What did that achieve?

– You know, I have never seen or heard the interior minister come to the walls of city hall and say into a microphone that he doesn’t like the mayor and the city council. That’s his personal and subjective opinion, which he imposes on those rocking the situation in a peaceful city.

So, let’s return to sociology: look, 63% of Kharkiv residents trust Kernes, 3% trust Avakov.

Now let’s look at distrust levels. See? Avakov is first at 88%. And if we look at how Kharkiv residents trust the city council—that’s 55% of respondents. Understand?

– Do you think Avakov is only a hindrance in the city?

– By coming to city hall and saying what he said, Avakov made it clear that this is an indulgence for those who want to "rock" Kharkiv. We saw events in Zaporizhzhia and Kryvyi Rih—there was an idea to organize the same process here. Certain people burst into the city council session with threats: "we’ll stuff you all into trash bins or drive everyone out of here." But that wasn’t all Kharkiv residents, only 50 activists. Others came for money.

I believe public opinion should be formed by Kharkiv residents who are respected here—this is about the regional level. At the national level—let the politicians whom people trust and vote for speak. Today, and I emphasize this, there is no respect for Arsen Avakov in Kharkiv, whether he is a minister or not.

– Then which national politicians do Kharkiv residents trust?

– There is trust in the president of Ukraine. I didn’t measure others. The People’s Front and the BPP have partly lost rating, if we speak of parties. The Opposition Bloc hasn’t lost ground. Why do people vote for it? Because Kharkiv residents don’t see the new authorities fulfilling the promises expected of them. Today there is no relationship between the mayor and the governor in Kharkiv so that all branches of power work equally toward creation.

Today it’s like this: the executive branch does what it thinks necessary, and no one asks people. An example is the demolition of the monument to Vladimir Lenin. When it was toppled with ropes it was done with the approval of regional authorities. That monument was in the protection registry. The city budget allocated funds for its maintenance. Now, retroactively, the regional authorities have struck it from the registry.

– You promised to restore it, saying it’s part of the city’s history. In Kyiv your statement was perceived ambiguously, and in Kharkiv there were people who brought it down. Why restore it?

– You know, once, 3 years ago, there was an idea to reconstruct Constitution Square in Kharkiv where the monument stood, which Kharkiv residents called "Three Carrying a Refrigerator" or "Five Coming Out of the Pawnshop." We decided to replace it with a monument to Ukraine’s Independence. We announced a competition and did everything properly, not brutally like happened with the Lenin monument. A bunch of teens in balaclavas did it—they didn’t ask Kharkiv residents. I want to restore justice first and foremost.

– Have you calculated how much restoring the monument would cost and the timeframe?

– Let’s put it this way: I said I would do it. First, we’ll survey Kharkiv residents about whether it should be. If not—then announce a competition for what should be placed there. Because it’s one of the largest and most beautiful squares in Europe and crosses shouldn’t just stand there.

– Who from central government do you communicate with as Kharkiv mayor? Journalists saw you at night near the Presidential Administration, for example.

– When Volodymyr Borysovych Hroisman was vice prime minister, I communicated with him. But I want to give credit to Arseniy Petrovych Yatsenyuk. When I was having a hard time at the start of my rehabilitation, he called and asked what help I and my family needed.

And with Hroisman we understood each other as mayors. Now he is the parliament speaker, and I want to say it’s good for the president that such an active and competent person became the Rada speaker.

As for my late-night visit to the PA, there were questions related to the city and its citizens. There I spoke with the head of the PA, Kharkiv native Borys Lozhkin.

– Do you plan to participate in local elections?

– Yes. I said I would run because of many rumors that I was going to leave Ukraine. I am not going to leave Kharkiv and made it clear in advance that I’m running.

Let’s look at electoral ratings (flips through poll data ordered by him). Here’s the Kernes–Avakov pair. I have 70%, he has 5. And here are others—Dobkin, Aleksandrovska (former MP), Yaroslavsky, Bohoslovska, Feldman, Svyatash. Overall, my electoral rating is quite high.

On Hennadiy Kernes’s work computer Ukrainska Pravda’s page is open

– In 2013 you said about Oleksandr Yaroslavsky: "He’s a person with unrealized ambitions. His position toward this or that business, politics or other activity is not something that interests me. Even if he has polka-dot underwear. I don’t care." Has your attitude toward him changed?

– No. If his underwear was polka-dot before, now it’s checkered—I still don’t care. What difference does it make?

– Are your relations with him the same as they were in 2013?

– I have even relations with everyone.

– I wouldn’t say the same about your relations with Arsen Avakov.

– Can I say it outright? Arsen Borysovych Avakov is, you know, off the charts (smiles). My relationship history with Avakov is very long. We can’t get along not because I am mayor and he is minister, but because of his attitude toward Kharkiv. He governed the region for five years, and if you run a sociological poll on his governance, no one trusted him. When he, as governor, campaigned for Yushchenko, Yanukovych was elected.

So I can say our contradictions are formed about matters, not about Kernes as a person. More about the matter.

As for him, any of his appearances in power is immediately linked to some criminal prosecution against Dobkin or Kernes—whether 10 years ago or now.

– What is the current stage of the criminal case opened against you in February last year?

– It’s in the investigation stage.

– Do you attend interrogations or is it frozen?

– It’s not frozen, it’s being investigated.

– What evidence is cited in the case?

– What are you talking about—that’s pure fabrication! In the case the witness is Anton Herashchenko, Avakov’s aide, now an MP from the People’s Front and member of the Interior Ministry board. A person who is far from the police had to earn his place on the board.

– You said that during Euromaidan authorities didn’t hinder activists. But you made rather harsh statements about people who were on Euromaidan.

– Honestly, I’m tired of all these words and turns of phrase.

– Recently the investigator handling all Euromaidan cases spoke about a new department in the Prosecutor General’s Office that will, among other things, check OpLOT’s involvement in Maidan events.

– What do I have to do with OpLOT? Here you go again… (For the first time in the interview Kernes answers irritably—UP)

– You flared up just now.

– What do I have to do with OpLOT? What do I have to do, conditionally, with the Malyshev Factory or the Morozov Design Bureau? What relationship do I have to that?! Yes, all those facilities are on Kharkiv territory. A good manager should know everything located in the territory where he works.

I know what OpLOT is, I know who led OpLOT. But how many people worked there or what other activities they had—I’m not interested. I’m interested in cleanliness where they are and that they pay taxes. Period.

– Regarding the attempt on your life—it has been almost a year now…

– Nothing.

– Do you follow the investigation and how it’s progressing?

– I don’t believe any real investigation is underway. I believe it’s an imitation.

– Do you still hold the view that the attempt on your life benefited Arsen Avakov?

– Yes. Is Avakov capable? He’s a cynical man. At one time he was suspected in the murder of a business partner. So, if you look purely at who benefits from my death—it’s certainly Avakov. He confirms it: he doesn’t like this mayor, he doesn’t like this city council. I’ve said I have an unpleasant relationship with him; you can see his ears sticking out. If you take words and behavior, we see it.

Most likely they wanted to present him with evidence of my death so he would be glad.

– Excuse me, but these are very loud statements. You are effectively accusing a person outright.

– Well, tell me, when I’m accused of allegedly threatening someone with violence, allegedly torturing someone, allegedly kidnapping someone—and all that is fabricated and based purely on words—if my words state that it was advantageous for Avakov, why can’t that be so?

We’ll take my explanations and statements from 2007 when there was an attempt on me—it was the same then. I wrote that it benefited Avakov. He then served as Kharkiv region governor and all this happened here. So I can say unequivocally that for many years Avakov has had an interest in my not being alive or in power.

NO KURCHENKO—NO MONEY

– You had a sale contract for the Metalist stadium with Serhiy Kurchenko. From the deal you planned to receive 70 million dollars and direct it to funding the metro, for example. The contract is now terminated. What will you do with the stadium?

– Nothing. We’re funding the metro from the local budget because the state budget isn’t giving us money yet. The first tranche from the sale contract, I think 100 million hryvnias, was redistributed—part to the metro, part to the philharmonic, and part to the museum.

Today, of course, we badly miss those funds to finish the construction of the 30th metro station, finish reconstruction of the philharmonic with perhaps the best organ hall in Europe. It’s very unfortunate we didn’t complete that deal.

"If you look purely at who benefits from killing me—it’s certainly Avakov," Kernes believes

– Why did that happen?

– Kurchenko is now wanted; many different criminal proceedings are being pursued against him. So no Kurchenko—no money.

– Will he finish building the arena planned for EuroBasket?

– The same answer. I recently spoke with Kurchenko because at meetings people asked me such questions. Either he reassigns it to someone who wants to build it, or something else. He said he would finish it later. That’s his words.

– I ask because Oleksandr Yaroslavsky recently said that if approached, he’d be ready to buy Metalist back. That probably depends on Kurchenko.

– I think that’s a play on words.

– So you think he won’t buy the team?

– No, let him buy the team. Who’s stopping him? The thing is if Yaroslavsky previously got over 120 million dollars for the football club, now he likely wants to buy the club for 1 dollars. I’m just saying as an example.

– About Kurchenko: in 2013 you said he "looks at things globally. We will provide him with maximum support in his initiatives," calling him a main investor in Kharkiv.

– Not the main investor. He was an investor for EuroBasket. I think he would have remained an investor if everything had been in place.

– And now he has no money for the arena or the stadium.

– I think he has money, but his desire today isn’t what it was.

– You call him periodically, as I understand. Is he in Russia now?

– He’s in Russia.

I DO NOT CONSIDER RUSSIA AN AGGRESSOR TOWARD UKRAINE

– In an interview with Ksenia Sobchak in Israel you said you couldn’t call Russia an aggressor at that time. What is your position now?

– The same. I do not consider Russia an aggressor toward Ukraine. Because a loan was extended to Ukraine, and Russia supplies gas to Ukraine today.

– Until April.

– Still, that’s an indicator. I speak from economic and socio-political aspects. I’m not speaking in terms of profit or anything else.

So I can’t call Russia an aggressor; I don’t participate in any negotiations and I can’t see the data that, for example, law enforcement has. That’s my answer. I consider Russia not an aggressor.

– But you see what’s happening in the east. You see the "humanitarian convoys" and the shelling of Mariupol. Aren’t those facts to you?

– For me there are many informational reports today. You have to sort out where truth is and where it isn’t. When people stir up the situation and say Russia or someone else did it, you need to figure it out. Who does that? Law enforcement. So they form public opinion on this question today.

"I do not consider Russia an aggressor toward Ukraine," says the mayor of Kharkiv

– The president also shapes public opinion on this and speaks directly about the events and the aggressor.

– I support the president’s initiatives, and I consider the president the president of the whole country. So I hear what he says.

– Readers who left questions on UP’s Facebook page were outraged that when approving the budget the city didn’t allocate money for defense.

– Let’s put it this way: all objects related to civil defense are under close monitoring… (takes out a document) …here are all civil defense objects by district, where they are, and what condition they’re in. We know this. Look: this object belongs to the Ministry of Industrial Policy, this to the city, here the State Space Agency, here the Central Clinical Hospital. The owners of these bomb shelters are determined. Any questions?

I repeat: there is no budget line for "defense"—the army is financed from the state budget. But we know what we’re doing. Because I wouldn’t want Kharkiv to be in the condition Donbas is in today. I say that unequivocally.

– At the same time our readers are offended that you allocate 17 million hryvnias to the zoo and almost 900 thousand hryvnias for a giraffe house. Can the giraffe house wait? I’m relaying the position of people living in Kharkiv who ask these questions.

– Those questions come from people who don’t love Kharkiv! Those who hold that position are not all Kharkiv residents, but some of them. They are against allocating money to the zoo—for its upkeep, feeding, and so on.

– In Kharkiv there are two large volunteer projects—Kharkiv Station and Help Army. Do you personally help of your own initiative?

– May I not answer that? Because if I start answering you’ll think I’m bragging.

– No, I won’t. Please answer.

– I individually help guys who were in the ATO zone, the wounded; I transferred money to the army’s account, but I don’t intend to boast. I don’t even take my salary; I’ve directed it to charity for a long time.

– Sveta!!!!! (calls his assistant) …Sveta, how much do we transfer from my salary for kindergartens and so on? What’s the amount?

Sveta: About 40 thousand hryvnias right away; when you returned, sick pay and everything went to IDPs. People came even without personal belongings; they were given cash. Recently—a woman with a 11-month-old baby from Luhansk. For 5 thousand we bought a heart valve, the surgery was done quickly, all free. Today Svitlana Oleksandrivna (Kernes’s deputy for social issues) called—another operation will be for a displaced boy. These are people who don’t have their own accounts; it’s cash given into hands.

Kernes: But I don’t want to talk about it.

– Does the city council in any way cooperate with volunteers?

– I can’t say that we cooperate. We don’t hinder them.

– Recently Vsevolod Kozhemyaka said he cooperates with the regional authorities but not with the city.

– Who is Senya Kozhemyakin?

– A millionaire who helps the army.

– Then he’s a good guy. If he’s a millionaire, God told him to help the army to protect his business. (pause) Senya Kozhemyakin. It’s just funny (mocking—UP).

– Why funny?

– You understand, if a person is wealthy and has money, he can direct that money to any projects he considers necessary. But to boast about it, to tell about it…

– It’s a personal matter for each person.

– It’s not a personal matter for everyone; it’s a matter of upbringing.

– But you didn’t want to boast—yet I asked you to tell. A person decides on his own whether to tell about it.

– If a man is a millionaire, as you say officially, then by all means he should share.

– By the way, about money… Do you have business assets in Germany?

– That’s all a lie.

– So you claim you’re not building a shopping center in Cologne?

– Ridiculous.

– I’m asking because it’s a question from my editor-in-chief.

– Tell your editor-in-chief that all of Kernes’s assets are on Ukrainian territory and mostly in the city of Kharkiv.

– Are you going to sell the National Hotel?

– No. I didn’t sell it in good times; even less so now. I live there.

Maria Zhartovska, Ukrainska Pravda

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