No Need to Repay the Loan without Russian Reparations: Interview with the EU Ambassador about Financial Aid to Ukraine

In an exclusive interview for 24 Channel, EU Ambassador to Ukraine Katarina Maternova described how the European Union is preparing for another difficult winter alongside Ukrainians, what the “loan” of 90 billion euros for Ukraine actually means, when new negotiating clusters might be opened, and whether the realistic prospect of Ukraine joining the EU remains in 2030 year.

Separately, Maternova explained why these funds are in practice not a debt burden for Ukraine if Russia does not pay reparations, and also spoke about frozen Russian assets, sanctions policy, and the European Union’s security role.

Text version of the interview with Katarina Maternova by Nataliya Lutsenko on the 24 Channel website.

Full interview of the 24 Channel with Katarina Maternova: watch the video

Three years of war in Ukraine: what changed the EU ambassador personally

You just marked your third anniversary as EU Ambassador to Ukraine. Your final year in this post has begun. Over the past three years you have gone through very difficult moments alongside Ukrainians, sheltering in basements or bomb shelters. After all those hard times, after the EU mission building in central Kyiv was nearly hit by a Russian missile, what have these three years taught you and what has changed in you personally?

Indeed, when I arrived three years ago I did not realize I would be starting my fourth year here, in the midst of a really hot kinetic war. And it has not been easy. Last winter was hard, but it changed me a lot. It taught me many things.

The EU ambassador slept in the bathroom during the attack / Photo by Katarina Maternova

It made me admire the Ukrainians around me even more. It taught me to rejoice when the sun shines and to value small things, because you cannot take electricity, heating, water, or basic safety for granted. And it also taught me that even after a night of heavy bombardment, in the morning you just get up and carry on living.

What do you plan to do when your last day as EU Ambassador to Ukraine comes?

Oh, I will cry a lot, because this is truly the hardest but most amazing job I’ve ever had, and it’s more than a job. It’s a mission. It’s what I do with a big heart.

And I have found very good friends here. I have met many new people. I have great colleagues here in the Delegation. So it will be a very sad moment when my last day here comes, but I still have a whole year of work ahead of me.

You travel from west to east, from north to south. Which memory has been the most moving over the last three years in Ukraine?

Hugging Romchyk. A boy who survived in Vinnytsia. Romchyk, who lives in Lviv, who does ballroom dancing, plays the accordion with his father who is an accordionist and now the acting rector of the Lviv academy. And I think we became friends.

It was an EU medical evacuation program when he was the only survivor after an attack with two ballistic missiles on a Vinnytsia hospital in the summer of 2022. He was taken to Germany, where he underwent more than 30 plastic surgeries, and now he is a cheerful, happy, wonderful 11-year-old boy.

Preparing for another tough winter

Last year you warned a harsh winter was coming. Now another difficult winter is approaching. How are you and your team coping? How are you preparing for such a winter?

I think we learned from last year’s experience, just like all Ukrainians, like all Kyiv residents. I think we are also mentally better prepared for the coming winter. Hopefully the weather will be kinder than last winter.

But we should not indulge in illusions. The Russians will continue to hit infrastructure as they have done so far. There is no sign they want any kind of energy ceasefire, despite attempts, even on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly in New York this week.

By the way: American diplomats are trying to arrange talks between Ukraine and Russia to conclude a partial ceasefire. It would involve a mutual pledge to refrain from attacks on power plants, refineries, and cargo ships.

But the team is preparing. You know, we are equipping our office with more washing machines. We have set up shower facilities to ensure people can gather there. And I think we have a shared spirit and we support one another, just as we see among all of you.

So I think we will be ready. We definitely are not going anywhere. And just as last winter or before last winter, I think I can confidently say it will be another hard winter, but we will cope.

A “loan” of 90 billion euros: why it is effectively a grant

The European Union has provided over 220 billion euros of support to Ukraine since the full-scale invasion. In addition, we have a loan of 90 billion euros for Ukraine for this year and until 2027 year. But many say: “Why are you so happy? It’s a loan, not a grant.” Will Ukraine ever have to repay this money, given that this loan is effectively linked to Russian reparations?

It is a loan because the European Union had to borrow this money on the financial markets in order to be able to transfer it to Ukraine in various tranches. But it is very similar to a grant.

The EU provided a loan to Ukraine / Photo – Reuters

First, it is a loan on a very long term. Second, you do not have to repay it as long as Russian reparations do not allow you to do so. So it is practically a grant. It is the most concessional loan, and the European Union also pays the interest on that loan. So it is practically a grant.

But it is easy to imagine that Russia will never pay reparations.

Yes, that is why you will never have to repay them. That is why it is a grant.

And what about frozen Russian assets?

This is not related to that. It has nothing to do with frozen Russian assets. These were 90 billion that EU member states borrowed on behalf of Ukraine.

And because of the provision that they do not have to be repaid if Russia does not pay reparations, in essence it is a grant. So anyone commenting on this should first get the facts straight.

Attention! According to Katarina Maternova, the funds often called a “loan” for Ukraine will in practice not have to be repaid if Russia does not pay reparations.

Frozen Russian assets, Ukraine’s budget, and EU aid

Frozen Russian assets are mostly in Europe, in Belgium. We know that that country is somewhat wary of lawsuits. Do you think the European Union is ready to take on this financial burden, help Belgium and simply turn that money over to Ukraine? Why is this taking so long?

It is taking a long time, but we borrowed 90 billion to provide to Ukraine. In other words, for now we do not have consensus on the use of frozen assets. So we found another way.

Important. Under the terms, the loan must be repaid by reparations that Russia should pay for the damage caused. In other words, Ukraine will not repay the loan from its own funds.

We always find another path or another way to help Ukraine. So far we have been the most reliable partner. Let us not forget that.

And regarding frozen assets, I am confident that ultimately a consensus will be found. But let us not forget that money, if you use it, can only be spent once. Because right now the money sits in a blocked account, and it generates income, doesn’t it?

So it is a significant amount that does generate revenues, and those revenues are being used for Ukraine. Both for the Peace Fund at first, and now for repaying the G7 loan that was provided last year.

President Zelensky says we have a huge hole in the Ukrainian budget. How do people in Brussels view this? What do they think right now?

I would like to separate what is missing in the budget, because, in our understanding, there is nothing missing in the budget this year. And what is the deficit on the military side compared to the expectations that the Ministry of Defense or other armed forces units had?

And indeed, there were promises made at the beginning of the year. Not all of them were fulfilled, but I think we are now looking very carefully at the numbers. This was also a topic of discussion between our two presidents, President von der Leyen and President Zelensky in New York this week.

The devil is in the details, but we do not see a large hole in the budget for 2026 year itself.

Negotiations on EU accession and the 2030 year prospect

Next question about the clusters. We have two successfully opened clusters behind us, and four more ahead. To what extent can we work on them in parallel, when is the decision to open another one and another?

Look, reforms can continue. There is no stopping reforms, because we also have the Ukraine Plan process within the Ukraine Facility, which is a financial instrument for you, and the loan in support of Ukraine has conditions, so these reforms must continue for the disbursement of funds.

Meeting between Volodymyr Zelensky and Ursula von der Leyen / Photo – Office of the President

In particular, of those 90 billion. And these reforms can continue. I myself, of course, would very much like to see clusters already opened.

I think there is no point in hiding disappointment that consensus has not yet been found, but I still believe that by the end of the year we will find that consensus in order to move forward.

At our first meeting you said that Ukraine has every chance to become an EU member by 2030 year. Has that changed at all?

I think that is still a realistic date, but right now, frankly, what occupies me most is when we will see the end of this horrible Russian invasion? That would really change the dynamics, but apart from that, I still think we are in 2030.

I think it is still a realistic date, because the glass is half full. The reforms that have already been implemented since the application for membership, and also since the times of the Revolution of Dignity, certainly make the glass half full.

So, if there were momentum from the clusters and we did not have this horrible daily situation, including daytime attacks, then all the energy could go to the remaining technical work and to some of the more sensitive political questions. But I think we are still on the right track, although reforms must speed up.

Sanctions, oligarchs, and political compromises in the European Union

The debate about two oligarchs, Alisher Usmanov and Mikhail Fridman. This debate and the disputes around them became a sort of bargaining chip among EU members. Are you not afraid that we will increasingly see such situations?

Not over the next three years, because at the same time that these two gentlemen were removed from the list, it was done in exchange for freezing the list for the next 36 months. That means three years.

Attention. The European Union removed Russian billionaires Alisher Usmanov and Mikhail Fridman from the sanctions lists due to backroom agreements by certain states. Such a move creates a dangerous precedent that undermines European unity and plays into the Kremlin’s hands.

Important. The European Union removed Russian billionaires Alisher Usmanov and Mikhail Fridman from the sanctions lists due to backroom agreements by certain states. Such a move creates a dangerous precedent that undermines European unity and plays into the Kremlin’s hands.

So you will not have such bargaining over removals from the list, because it is blocked for three years. And in addition we keep adding new people.

And just yesterday 20 organizations and a dozen or more people were added, including the former head of Russia Today France, under a specific article that appeared in 2024 year about participation in Russian hybrid activities and disinformation.

So the existing list of about 3000 people and organizations is now frozen for three years. And we continue to add new entries. So yes, I think many were disappointed that two people were removed from the list, but I believe that ending the bargaining for the next three years is actually very important.

Europe’s security architecture and Ukraine’s place in it

The European Union was originally only an economic and political union, but certainly not a military one. It is not NATO. But do you think the European Union is ready to somehow build its own security architecture?

We now have our first-ever security strategy. We have an instrument that finances military expenditure. We have the first-ever Commissioner for Security. Mr. Kubilius.

Andrus Kubilius / Photo – AP

And thanks to the full-scale invasion, the EU budget is now effectively financing military expenditure. Whether it is your drone industry or Ukrainian procurement of European or even American weapons. And these are all steps that were unthinkable five years ago, before the full-scale invasion.

So I believe that because Ukraine and Europe really mobilized to support Ukraine, this also strengthens its own security, but we are all, except for four countries – three islands and a country in the middle, Austria, members of NATO.

And NATO is still the foundation of security, but certainly much more is being done at the European level, including much closer integration of European defense industries that until now had 27 different systems. So steps are now being taken to try to integrate this much more.

And in other respects we rely on NATO compatibility, and that remains, so to speak, the basis of military support also for Europe.

And a very important aspect is that Ukraine is a full part of the security strategy. So the European Union sees the security of the continent together with Ukraine. And I personally am absolutely convinced that Europe will be more prosperous, more innovative, and certainly safer and stronger with Ukraine as part of it.