"Ukraine and Hungary Have Already Resolved 5 of the 11 Problematic Issues Between Our Countries. Next Year They Will Close Another 5," - Ambassador Fedir Shandor

Nataliya PetervariIn recent years of Viktor Orbán's premiership, relations between Ukraine and Hungary were at an impasse. His government blocked the opening of negotiation clusters for Ukraine’s accession to the European Union, citing alleged violations of the rights of the Hungarian community in Zakarpattia. The pre-election campaign of his party, Fidesz, built on anti-Ukrainian rhetoric, and the high-profile detention of Ukrainian cash-in-transit workers made relations even more difficult.

With Orbán’s defeat and Péter Magyar coming to power, hopes for improved ties with Budapest emerged in Kyiv. And the first steps in that direction are already visible: Hungary unblocked the opening of two negotiation clusters on Ukraine’s EU accession after the Verkhovna Rada passed a law on the educational rights of national minorities. However, that did not resolve all problems.

Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Ambassador of Ukraine to Hungary Fedir Shandor, also known as the “professor from the trench,” told UNIAN about the dynamics of Ukrainian-Hungarian relations, the conclusion of the case of the unjustly detained Oschadbank cash-in-transit workers, and why Budapest continues to maneuver around the topic of Ukraine’s EU accession.

Mr. Fedir, what processes are taking place in Hungary after the removal of Viktor Orbán from the position of prime minister, who was in power for almost 16 years? Is his influence still present in Hungarian politics?

Well, of course, not everything changes as quickly as we would like. Over 16 years a certain structure was built in Hungary… However, the new government is not a dictatorship; it operates according to norms. And according to norms – this is not done in one day. It takes time…

…which we do not have?

Yes, we do not have time. I know well, especially as a sergeant of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, that we cannot wait for democratic changes, that we are in a hurry, we would like it faster. But believe me, changes are happening. And they are actually occurring very quickly for European bureaucracy.

For example, among the positive points (after Magyar’s rise to power) one can name amendments to Hungary’s judicial system, the Constitution, and the appointment of a new attorney general. Investigations are currently underway into the embezzlement of enormous, simply unbelievably large sums by the previous government. Nothing is being hidden. Moreover, even people who in the new government failed to disclose information about the origin of their assets are falling under the wave of cleansing.

The new Hungarian prime minister appealed to parliament to lift immunity not only from specific deputies but also asked to do so regarding himself, so that the case opened against him during the previous administration could be investigated (Magyar is suspected of stealing a mobile phone due to an incident that occurred on the night of 21 June 2024 in one of Budapest’s nightclubs, - UNIAN).

Thus, we can observe incredible efforts to cleanse the Hungarian executive, legislative, and judicial branches of power of the previous corrupt system. One should take one’s hat off to these democratic changes.

Given such changes, in your opinion, could Orbán stage a comeback in the future?

A comeback is always possible. It can happen when society is dissatisfied with the changes it was promised. And the new Hungarian government, represented by the Tisza party, understands this very well. For this political force, promises of government transparency, fighting corruption, etc. are extremely weighty issues.

That is why Hungarians now have a new interesting “series.” Local media say: “Why watch shows when we have parliament?” Incredible battles are indeed taking place there—even though the new political force has a constitutional majority... It is also interesting that the prime minister constantly speaks in parliament, revealing new cases, including the “Golden Convoy” case (the incident related to the detention in Hungary of Oschadbank cash-in-transit workers in March 2026, - UNIAN).

By the way, at what stage is that case?

It is already very, very close to going to trial, and you will be surprised by the names [involved]. It will be a shock for Hungarian society.

Have anti-Ukrainian narratives disappeared after Orbán’s defeat? What are the general sentiments in Hungarian society toward Ukraine now?

In Hungarian society there isn’t the same tension toward the Ukrainian community as in other countries. Hungarians did not have historical tragedies with us. On the contrary, we have “shared DNA”: five Ukrainian princesses became five Hungarian queens. But social changes take a bit of time.

Magyar’s premiership has lasted half a year. How would you characterize this period?

For Ukraine — wonderful! Rapid positive changes for our country are obvious — evidenced by Ukrainian-Hungarian meetings at the highest levels of government... I emphasize: everything happens step by step, civilized. It cannot be otherwise when a democratic government comes to power.

Hungary long blocked the opening of negotiation clusters for Ukraine’s EU accession, demanding the adoption of a law on the educational rights of national minorities. On 12 October the Verkhovna Rada adopted it, on 13 the EU opened two clusters, and later Péter Magyar met with Volodymyr Zelensky on the sidelines of the EU summit. Recently media spread information that Hungary again blocked the opening of the last two clusters. Later Ukraine’s representative to the EU, Taras Kachka, said that Hungary had not raised new substantive objections to their opening. What is really happening?

There was no blocking at all, and I would ask in the future not to fall for fake reports. The Hungarian government did not block the opening of the fourth and fifth clusters; it took the issue for further study. Such a right exists. After all, every country defends its interests, that’s logical, and there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone resolves their own issues, their own problems and protects their interests — not only economic, but also socio-cultural, socio-political…

But in connection with the major positive changes in Hungary itself, I repeat this term — major positive changes — we will all see the results before the end of the year.

Hungary did not block the last clusters / photo PixabayRegarding the education law for national communities that the Verkhovna Rada adopted at Hungary’s request, does it pose any threats to Ukraine?

In fact, besides the Hungarian community there are Romanian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Slovak, Polish, Jewish, Crimean Tatar and other communities. And the recently adopted education law concerns all of these national communities. Yes, the Hungarian community in Ukraine insisted most on its adoption, but it applies to everyone.

This law was so hard-fought, so thoroughly proofread, so detailed that there are no claims. It resolved various contentious issues regarding all possible future objections, discrepancies. I am even glad that this process was so difficult and that all European and global communities saw it… Now Ukraine has perhaps the best law in the world regarding the protection of national communities’ rights.

How many schools in Ukraine might this law affect?

Regarding the Hungarian community, we are talking about 96 schools… And in total almost 200 schools just in the Zakarpattia region and over 2 000 educational institutions in Ukraine.

At the same time, the education law was only one of 11 points that Hungary voiced. How many more were agreed after Magyar came to power?

Of eleven points, five have already been agreed and enacted at the legislative level.

What’s next? As you know, a roadmap for resolving disputed issues has been developed…

Yes, next year another five must be resolved, 2027 is the deadline. And one point will remain, but it requires constitutional changes. While martial law is in effect in Ukraine, it is impossible to resolve that issue. The Hungarian side adequately assesses the situation, so the time to resolve 11 will be extended.

What issue is that?

Regarding the representation of national communities in the Ukrainian parliament.

And it’s not only about mirroring Hungarian practice (in Hungary most minorities are represented only by speakers without voting rights; a full mandate with voting rights is granted only to the national community whose list reached a quota of 22–25 thousand votes, – UNIAN). There are several options being considered. Currently Ukraine is analyzing models from other European countries, including Slovenia, Romania, Serbia and Croatia, to propose various options for the election and granting of voting rights to representatives of national communities.

Could Hungary use some of the remaining points under consideration to blackmail Ukraine again?

This is not blackmail. Let us return to what we discussed at the beginning: if a country has the opportunity to resolve many of its own issues (the protection of national interests), why not use that opportunity?

But in your opinion as an ethnic Hungarian, do Hungarians in Zakarpattia really need an expansion of their rights in Ukraine, as presented by the Hungarian authorities?

There is a moment called “ordering relations.” If two people meet, at a certain point there arises a need to translate the relationship into some legal component, like—are we getting married or not. Relations between states are like in human life… There simply is a need to put relations in order.

Do you have information on how many Hungarians remain in Zakarpattia (that is, for whom the aforementioned 11 points are being agreed)? Recently Magyar mentioned 100 thousand people…

The number of Hungarians in Ukraine is currently estimated at about 100 thousand people. However, I repeat again that these 11 points concern not only the Hungarian community but all national communities of Ukraine. Therefore no one keeps statistics from this point of view; that would be incorrect.

In early September the Verkhovna Rada became the first in the world to recognize the mass repressions by the Soviet authorities against the civilian population of Zakarpattia in 1944–1946 years. How did Hungary react to this decision? Does it have any impact on improving relations?

During the meeting of Verkhovna Rada Chairman Ruslan Stefanchuk with the Speaker of the Hungarian Parliament Ágnes Forsthoffer, during Volodymyr Zelensky’s meeting in Brussels with Péter Magyar, during the meeting of Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha with Hungary’s Foreign Minister Anitta Orbán — the same sentence was heard everywhere: “Thank you for recognizing the genocide of the Hungarian people, which entered history under the name ‘Malenykij robot’ (Malenykij robot – the code name for the mass deportation of the civilian Hungarian and German population of Zakarpattia – 30–40 thousand people, of whom every third died – to Soviet concentration camps in the autumn of 1944, – UNIAN).”

For Hungarians this decision of the Ukrainian parliament was very important! Perhaps to some this is unclear or uninteresting, but from the Hungarians’ point of view this decision is a mirror response by Ukraine to the fact that Hungary was one of the first in Europe to recognize the Holodomor as a genocide of the Ukrainian people. And now we have reciprocated.

You mentioned meetings at the highest level. When might the next meeting between Zelensky and Magyar take place?

This year.

In Berehove?

That’s another matter. Berehove will definitely happen.

Zelensky said he was ready to visit Budapest…

Our president keeps his word.

By the way, how does the current Hungarian government view Russia? Do they consider it a threat to their country?

Hungarians answered that question on 23 October at a huge rally during the commemoration of the 70-th anniversary of the liberation revolution of 1956 (the uprising of Hungarians demanding the withdrawal of Soviet troops and the country’s liberation from USSR control, – UNIAN) with a very simple and clear expression: “Ruszkik haza!” (Russians, go home!, – UNIAN). This is concrete work — expulsion of Russian diplomats, diversification of oil and gas supply sources — and the slogan that lives in generations who know well who destroyed their children, killed men, raped women…

Hungarians demonstrated how they feel about Russia / photo ua.depositphotos.comRecently Ukraine has been gradually taking steps toward Hungary. But Hungary, despite the change of government, retained its previous position on refusing to finance Ukraine and its EU accession, in particular not supporting the EU loan of 70 billion in 2027. What explains Budapest’s steadfast stance, given hopes for a thaw in relations?

It’s our neighbor. Patience. Everything will be fine, believe me!

And yet, when we talk about the common interests of Ukraine and Hungary, it is worth recalling that recently the Hungarian prime minister did not want to join the Carpathian Eight initiative launched by Ukraine. Moreover, he rather roughly compared it to a village football team to which he was added without consent. What caused such a reaction?

I repeat again: patience. We live in the same Carpathian basin, and we have common thinking regarding certain cultural, economic and social matters.

Due to Russia’s attacks, the “sea corridor” in the Black Sea is almost completely blocked. Recently Magyar said he was not against the transit of Ukrainian grain through Hungary. Are there concrete steps in this direction yet?

Everything is already working. And we are grateful to our neighbor.

Hungary refused to apply EU restrictions and continues to grant temporary protection to Ukrainian men of conscription age without requiring proof of fulfillment of military obligations in Ukraine. Does the Hungarian government explain this decision?

In reality nothing has changed, and there is nothing to explain. It is the decision of the Hungarian authorities.

And has the new government lifted the ban introduced during Orbán’s time on entry to the Schengen area for Commander of the UAV Forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Robert Magyar and other Ukrainians?

It should be remembered that such issues are not simply sanctions; they are primarily bureaucratic matters. Six people from the list you mentioned can already freely move around the EU. As diplomats, we are working on the others.

You head a diplomatic mission with a unique status — professor, Ukrainian Armed Forces warrior, and ethnic Hungarian. Does this help you, or on the contrary — complicate your relations with Hungarian officials who are used to describing Ukrainian policy as anti-Hungarian?

It definitely helps at various levels — cultural, academic, professional, protocol. And, in fact, Hungarians have great respect for soldiers, for officers, for the Armed Forces. That influences. And surely no one will tell Ukraine’s ambassador anything about the war because he himself was at war.

Does Hungarian society’s attitude toward military aid to Ukraine change because you actively explain to the Hungarian-speaking public the role of Zakarpattia Hungarians in defending Ukraine? Can this influence the government’s position (since Magyar says he refuses to supply weapons to Kyiv)?

You know, there’s a well-known joking saying: to give something you must have something. And if you don’t have anything, how can you give it? So there is no point in talking about some military assistance. Hungary has never been an exporter; it has always been an importer of weapons, primarily for itself, to protect its interests.

At the same time, donors have collected and continue to collect huge aid for Ukraine. Among many is the “Fund for Supporting Zakarpattia Sharcan,” which since the beginning of the full-scale invasion has gathered for the Armed Forces of Ukraine various aid — from vehicles to Ecoflo, from drones to rangefinders — 700 million forints (1,91 million euros or 97 million hryvnias, - UNIAN). Thus, aid from the Hungarian people has not stopped since the beginning of 2022.

Hungarians have not stopped helping Ukrainians / photo ua.depositphotos.comI know that Hungary continues to support Ukraine in child recuperation and restoration of destroyed facilities. Recently Hungarians joined prosthetics for servicemen. What projects are these?

First of all, it is worth mentioning the agreement on the rehabilitation of 400 servicemen with amputations in Hungarian hospitals, whose specialists are among Europe’s leaders in such matters. This is not cosmetic rehabilitation but bio-replacements of arms, legs, prostheses, etc. The project is funded by our partners from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. This year they completed the rehabilitation of 200 warriors; next year, 2027, treatment and rehabilitation will be undergone by another 200 servicemen. This is a long process but extremely important.

Second, last year 5,5 thousand, and this year almost 6 thousand Ukrainian children rested in Hungary at the expense of the Hungarian government.

Third, from the first days of the full-scale invasion, Hungary has been implementing the largest humanitarian mission in the country’s history called “Hungary Helps.” This is the supply of generators, medical equipment, food and necessities for internally displaced persons and children’s institutions, participation in rebuilding and equipping schools and kindergartens. It is emergency humanitarian aid to people affected by shelling and combat operations in frontline regions… The list is long.

What, in your opinion, must happen for Hungary and Ukraine to transform from problematic neighbors into reliable allies?

Continue moving in the chosen direction, remaining good neighbors. And patience.