Viktor Baloha: I'm a Little Worried About the President. Is He Not Fighting Too Many Wars at Once?

Viktor Baloha: I'm a little worried about the President. Is he not fighting too many wars at once?

In an interview with 'Glavkom,' Member of Parliament and the informal boss of Zakarpattia Viktor Baloha talked about the situation in turbulent Mukachevo, explained why he would never be the first to call Poroshenko, and predicted who might become the next president.

And we began our conversation with the tragic events that took place near the parliament last week.

Viktor Ivanovych, how do you assess what happened on 31 August?

First of all, I would like to say that a terrible tragedy occurred. I am convinced that the authorities must do everything possible so that such things do not happen again.

In some comment you noted that the authorities may have been involved in the events of 31 August. Are you saying that this was beneficial for Poroshenko?

I still say that. I just wouldn't want to develop this topic further, because the investigation is still ongoing. I would like the answer to this question to be given in court.

You know, something else is important here: if the president and the SBU want such incidents not to happen in the country, they can prevent them. I'm sure they have the means to do that. That's why I said that first of all the questions should be addressed to the head of state.

And still, do you think it was a planned action or a spontaneous decision by one person?

In short – planned. We are returning to the previous question. You won't hear from me that Poroshenko, Yatsenyuk, Avakov, or Tyahnybok planned it. I'll say one thing – it was definitely not Moscow's hand.

It's so convenient to blame Putin for everything. I already wrote on my Facebook that when someone says Putin organized a grenade explosion near the Verkhovna Rada, you want to ask: is the fire in the Darnytsky forestry also the Kremlin's hand? Are lines at kindergartens Russia's fault? Did Putin also start the network of illegal exchange offices around Kyiv? And if one of the ministers is found to have a villa in Italy, will it be considered that Putin planted it for an honest man?

After the events in Mukachevo, you actively criticized Interior Minister Avakov. After the tragedy near the parliament do you also consider him responsible?

Mukachevo was a political hit, and I do not hide that responsibility for the events in Zakarpattia should fall on the president and the minister of internal affairs. Regarding the incident near the Verkhovna Rada, there is also responsibility of the security forces, including Arsen Avakov.

Poroshenko wanted to introduce an ATO regime in Zakarpattia and thereby destroy political competition ahead of local elections. But we broke that scenario.

Is the creation of a police force in Zakarpattia a sign of Kyiv's primary attention to an unstable border region?

I don't think so. Of everything happening in the country, the authorities can only boast about the police. America helped with money, Georgian experts organized everything… and what came out is a kind of nice façade for reforms.

Can such a structure be effective in a frankly feudal region like Zakarpattia?

Feudal? What kind of strange labels are those?

You yourself know the situation in Zakarpattia well. Okay, how are your relations now with the new governor of Zakarpattia Hennadiy Moskal? At first you criticized him...

The assessment of a regional head should be given by the president. From my side, I want to wish that all of Moskal's plans are implemented. In particular, everything related to the police, especially since this topic is close to him. In general, I sincerely wish that he implements all the intentions he declares – fighting corruption, drugs, cigarette smuggling, import into Ukraine.

Still, you see what the regional head is doing, so you can evaluate him...

Tell me: who is Moskal for me to be watching him? No head of any region can be considered independently, separate from the country. Fighting corruption in one region will give nothing if there is no order in the country.

And what changes in the country can we talk about if investors are leaving and new ones are not coming?

In the year and a half of this Cabinet of Ministers we have not created any prerequisites to talk about qualitative shifts.

Given the scale of these failures I don't want to evaluate one region, because for me it is important when the president changes the government, when we beat corruption, when reforms begin.

I'll tell you frankly, we are now at the lowest point. Now is the time to put technocrats in power, to sort out the security structures – the Prosecutor General's Office, the SBU, the judicial system, the police, to implement a fundamentally new development model. It doesn't matter which one – American, Polish, German….

After the revolution we all hoped for better. Under Yanukovych no one promised anything and everyone understood there was nothing to expect, but this government promised to change the country qualitatively. Are you living better? No. There's your answer.

So the main blame lies with the Cabinet of Ministers?

I'd put it differently: on the parliamentary coalition, since we are a semi-presidential country.

Are there people in the government who work effectively?

Nataliya Yaresko. She knows how to negotiate, she meets with people, and that's already good.

Could she replace Yatsenyuk?

Let the president think about that; I can only vote.

Photo: 24tv.ua

Viktor Ivanovych, your anti-government rhetoric echoes Dmitry Firtash's rhetoric too much...

Is that so? It's strange to hear.

Do you communicate with him?

I last saw him in 2009 year. We were never friends, but of course we are acquainted.

What is the situation now in Mukachevo?

The situation in Zakarpattia is the same as in the whole country – people are surviving. All the troops, all the helicopters left long ago and quietly withdrew in small groups… And that shooting is already being forgotten.

You have already commented many times on what happened in Zakarpattia, but over time it becomes clearer what happened. Did someone want to redirect smuggling flows?

I would speak much more broadly here. Do you believe that someone can transport cigarettes across the border without the knowledge of border guards and police? If the authorities wanted to prohibit it, no one would bring cigarettes across. That's the whole answer. Search for all problems in Kyiv, and sticking labels is just a tactic.

After all these events did you speak with Petro Poroshenko?

We spoke by phone several times.

They say you were friends?

We've known each other for a long time, but I don't recall ever being able to call him a friend.

You noted you spoke by phone. What role did Petro Poroshenko attribute to you in the events in Zakarpattia? Did he accuse you of anything or consult you?

No, we just spoke, thought about how to get out of the situation so there would be no tragedy. We discussed it.

Did you find a way out?

There was a negotiation process that took place. There were no further victims.

After that did you conduct further negotiations?

No more. You know, there's an unwritten golden rule – you have no right to call someone who is above you in position. I always follow that rule.

You didn't vote for constitutional changes important to the president. Why?

This is not decentralization, this is a usurpation of power in the country. We will have a usurpation of power by the president in a semi-presidential country.

Do you think Poroshenko sincerely wants to adopt the constitutional changes, or is it more pressure from the West, which is trying to show progress in resolving the conflict in Ukraine?

Yes, you understand correctly: he has to adopt these changes because it's the West's demand. There is the Normandy Four and it is being decided within that framework.

Can we conclude that the West did not support Ukraine?

The West did everything to prevent the hryvnia's devaluation, to prevent a full-scale war, it provides funds to sustain the economy, because we don't produce anything. The West imposes sanctions that are disadvantageous to itself. Hence the demands.

Will the West insist that the Constitution be amended this year, or can the issue be delayed?

I think this year. In the current conditions between the West and Russia, three months is a long time.

However, today there are not enough votes in parliament for such a decision...

And there won't be tomorrow or the day after, so there will be another plan. I'll say one thing: Petro Oleksiyovych will not be able to gather the votes for the changes in the form they exist now. Certain provisions need to be changed, sent again to the Constitutional Court, and only then talk about votes. This concerns decentralization and the special status.

You can't write a special status for a specific territory. That will end badly. Ukraine will fall apart under such conditions, that's one hundred percent.

And regarding Donbas, does the method of resolving the conflict proposed by these changes correspond to reality?

No, it does not. In my conviction, Ukraine can solve the Donbas issue only by becoming a subject, not an object of the negotiation process in geopolitics.

We need to adopt a law on referendum and decide as a whole country what to do with the east. You know, people should be asked: do they want to live in this country? If not, that's the choice of the people who live there.

So, for Donbas to separate from Ukraine?

Yes, because I believe we will not resolve this question by war. A referendum is not pressure on the president; it's a question, an ultimatum to the people in the east – either you live in Ukraine or you don't.

Last week the Radical Party left the coalition, and in the corridors they're already talking about parliamentary elections...

If you listen to some experts and MPs, elections could be tomorrow. But practically speaking, elections are most disadvantageous to Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk.

Who benefits from snap Verkhovna Rada elections now?

Elections will happen if the people want them, regardless of whether it benefits someone. Right now they are not beneficial to any party in parliament. It seems to me that Bankova is actually not interested in early elections, despite statements from some MPs from the BPP. I think there are still some sane people there who understand that if early elections happen, they will follow the street's scenario, not Bankova's.

Photo: www.unian.net

People are already saying that it would be advisable for Poroshenko to repeat Saakashvili's experience and also go to early elections together with the parliament. Do you think such a scenario is realistic?

No, because Poroshenko would lose the elections. Just look at the sociological polls, and every political player has them. The president's rating is mercilessly low. In fact, a great tragedy is happening in our state, and someone thinks you can work by old methods. No, that won't work today; another generation has come. And I sincerely sympathize with the President, because if he drowns, we will drown with him.

Could this situation lead to a comeback of the former authorities?

I don't think so. Now leaders like Sadovyi are moving into top positions (I mean there's always a replacement). The old power will not return to its positions.

By the way, Andriy Sadovyi has not yet announced presidential ambitions, but he is named as perhaps the main competitor to the president...

I know Andriy well, but you must consider the opinions of people who support him. I'll put it this way: everyone whom the president has grievances against will be his future opponents.

Is there today a coalition of oligarchs against the authorities?

I think they act according to the situation. As for the President… I don't think he has enough strength to go against everyone. And we don't even know why they are at war: because oligarchs don't pay taxes or because they don't support the government's line. That's why I'm even a little worried for the President: is he not fighting too many wars at once?

Will there be resignations in the government in the near future?

I hope there will be a full reboot soon. My position is that the prime minister should be someone else.

Yuliya Tymoshenko has ambitions to return to the prime minister's chair...

Half the parliament has such ambitions. Agree, it's worth giving a chance to those who have not been there yet (laughs). And no 'golden share' will help her here.

And what about Saakashvili, who is promoting him as a Ukrainian politician?

Petro Oleksiyovych, but not of his own will. Saakashvili built good indicators in Georgia in all directions, but for some reason he's afraid to go to his judges and prosecutors. My question is: what is there to be afraid of if you are an honest politician?

Many see him as prime minister. And it's true, there are such attempts. But don't forget – you still need to find votes in parliament. And here there could be a problem.

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